Friday fun with Calvin Smith, of Creation Ministries International

When I call you slimy trash, that's how you know I really care.

One of the unintended but nonetheless interesting consequences of this site is that I’ve become acquainted with some of the stars of the createvangelism industry in ways I never could have if I only had access to their blogs and public appearances.

This has been illuminating since, for the most part, they do their very best to maintain an image of kind-hearted, thoughtful, clean-cut and godly men and, well, men…and, I guess, a couple women?

Anyway, I’ve learned over the years that this image isn’t always accurate through and through, and that even the most well-known young-earth proponents can have trouble with honesty, responding to critics, talking about critics and just being a decent person in general.

Of course, it’s far from just the big names who have this problem. In my experience, almost anyone who is very deeply ingrained in the culture of young-earthism can have a tendency to be, you know, sort of horrible to anyone who’s not a young-earther.

Which doesn’t necessarily mean they’re wrong, but it does mean that if heaven is populated entirely by them, I’m kind of hoping evolution is a salvation issue after all.

But today I do want to discuss a professional createvangelist. His name is Calvin Smith. Here’s what he looks like.


Nice, right? I mean, the first thing you’d say if you saw that guy walking down the street is, “Hey — I didn’t know Macaulay Culkin was in town.” But the second thing you would say is, “That looks like a pretty nice guy.”

Calvin Smith has appeared on our radar here before, when he bizarrely accused Christians who accept evolution of “sleeping with the enemy.” Which, if you think about it, actually makes us the protagonists and him the insane, homicidal spouse abuser.

But, I don’t know. Maybe Calvin didn’t understand the movie.

Cal’s training to be an expert on science, religion, psychology, philosophy, history and film criticism consisted of “lots of reading.” I’m not making that up — it’s in his bio:

Through lots of reading, Calvin has become well equipped to talk about many aspects of science and history that relate to the creation/evolution controversy. … When asked what formal science background he has, Calvin responds, “the same as Charles Darwin. His only formal training was in Theology!”

If I had to fairly sum up his professional experience and qualifications, it would be that Calvin is an expert on evolution because he is a young-earth creationist. Which is so insane I can’t even think of a metaphor that would be more insane. It is like saying Calvin is an expert on evolution because he is a young-earth creationist.

Recently, Calvin wrote a piece for his employer’s website,, in which he told a number of things that are referred to in polite company as “outright lies.” Here’s an example: “[T]here is abundant evidence now agreed upon by evolutionary scientists that the entire human race on the planet today originated from two people just a few thousand years ago.”

In case you’re wondering, that cyclone that just appeared and took out the Great Barrier Reef was caused by the vacuum created from every evolutionary scientist on earth simultaneously gasping in outrage and disbelief. Sorry, Great Barrier Reef. (Note to meteorologists: Please forgive me if that’s not really how cyclones are made. I don’t know that much about cyclones.)

In response to what I shall be charitable and refer to as Calvin’s “work,” an Internet guerrilla warrior named Ashley Haworth-Roberts prepared a rebuttal, with special emphasis on the points where Smith took liberty with small things like facts and truth and objective reality. You can read that here.

Where it gets fun is what happened afterward, when Ashley tagged Calvin in an email thread that also included myself and a number of other folks. Cal gets us started. (Click through for larger versions.)


You’ll notice Calvin says, “I have not made some ad hominem attack on anyone.” That’s only because he hasn’t thought of any yet. Next is Ashley’s polite reply and explanation.


No one likes being called a liar, and especially no one likes being called a liar in the presence of demonstrable and irrefutable proof that they are one, so Calvin becomes understandably upset at this point.


Now, I happen to have some expertise in identifying online rants. There is more that goes into it than you might realize. Like the Supreme Court’s threshold for identifying obscene material, you just know it when you see it. But there are a few telltale signs upon which astute observers can rely.

Insults like “trashy,” “slimy,” “immature,” “childish,” “pathetic” and “truly disgusting” can help clue in aspiring rantologists that what they are reading is probably an online rant. A less well-known but equally reliable indicator is someone who appeals to mythology or other non-existent things, like in this case, what our ranter calls “internet social protocol.”

If the above fails, there is yet one tried and true stand-by: UNNECESSARY CAPS LOCK IS ALWAYS A DEAD GIVEAWAY.

Next, Ashley responds again.


Desperate for the last word, Calvin gets his parting shots in with an impressive slew of put-downs.


Describing Ashley’s short message (which was basically just “Gee I wish you had responded to my critique of your article”) as “simply shrill, crass, trashy behavior” from “a truly childish, pathetic, rude and immature internet spamming troll with no class, integrity, or manners” seems like a slight escalation to me.

But hey, at least now we know that Christian reboot of “Yo Momma” featuring exclusively young-earth creationism proponents definitely has legs after all.

This is where I decided to jump in.


And that’s where we are. I haven’t received any reply to that message, but if I do, I’ll update this post.

Otherwise, have a wonderful and blessed weekend.

Update (11/1/15): Our goat charming friend, Tony Breeden, decided to insert himself into the conversation this morning. My response is here.

Update (11/2/15): Tony’s characteristically hateful and unfunny reply. Such a charmer!

Tyler Francke is founder of God of Evolution and author of Reoriented. He can be reached at

  • Seth

    Just wow. I won’t comment on the netiquette issues, but the original claims are simply breathtaking in their dishonesty, even considering the high level of dishonesty in the ‘field’.

    • Right? That’s what’s so hilarious about all this. Not that Calvin posted an article that plays fast and loose with all aspects of truth and honesty, but that he is shocked that his doing so would upset people who know he’s being dishonest.

  • ashleyhr

    In case anyone is wondering, this post was Tyler’s idea after he received the emails – but he sought my permission prior to publishing it. In fact I had already recorded the recent exchanges here:

    Calvin’s bio:

    I too have about as many scientific qualifications as Charles Darwin. But I and Calvin both have the privilege of internet access which Charles did not.

    • Seth

      For #2, I would clarify it by stating that full mineralization, which is what we usually think of as fossils, takes far longer than creationist timelines. From the sources I could find, 100s of 1000s to millions of years. Creationists tend to trot out either partial mineralization or concretions, which can indeed occur in an extremely short timeline.

      Too bad you could never get any kind of useful response from the guy. There seem to be two types of creationists, those who relish debate and those who are clearly afraid of it. Calvin is in the latter camp clearly.

      So is Phillip Johnson. Back in the early days of, I emailed him at length, and I wrote a critique of a couple of articles he wrote. I was quite proud of them but unfortunately I have lost them. Unlike Calvin, Johnson was very courteous, but like him, he completely dodged any criticism of his work.!searchin/

    • You are a troll who has been banned from many Pages and forums (even BCSE has you dialed down because they were “bored rigid” by your antics). Sending mail to 40-50 people that you insist inflicting your irrational bullying, hatred, hypocrisy, libel, and complete lack of logic are one of the reasons that thinking people do not take you seriously.

      • ashleyhr

        Cowboy Bob Sorensen is showing his true colours once again. It is only people like YOU who do not take me seriously. There is nothing ‘irrational’ about the CONTENT of my posts. Which is why instead of engaging with the content you tell me you block all my emails and falsely libel me over some of the comments I make on non-censored forums like the BCSE. There is no ‘hypocrisy’. There is no ‘lack of logic’. As for bitter ‘hatred’ – you have plenty of that, Bob. If you are a ‘thinking’ person, why do you refuse proper debates with critics (ones who have done their homework) about science or other topics? Your comments addressed to Tyler are pure bigotry. Biblical bigotry maybe – but bigotry nevertheless. The reason I have refused to remove Bob from my email list – unlike Calvin Smith and two or three others previously – is that Bob has a record of falsely attacking me on blogs and on Facebook where I cannot defend myself (see this link). Calvin Smith does not behave like Bob. In fact NO other YEC behaves quite like Bob as far as I know.
        The proven liar is Bob not me. Unlike him I have the evidence to prove it. Documented in ONE place over a period of YEARS.
        Should Bob persist with his deliberate lying about myself here, I promise I will send another email inviting recipients if they care to to take a look at his ‘Christian’ behaviour this evening.

        • When you start out every “letter” with a childish attack, how can anyone give a tinhorn like you the time of day? You’ve posted the content of your nonsense on that Forum of Futility and Bigotry, and everything is an attack. Anyone who disagrees with YOU or criticizes your puny god of evolution is a “liar”. The few times you’ve had a respectful tone, you’ve had some actual engagement. But most of the time, you are ignored and even banned. I have seen many people laughing at you, not saying, “Wow, so much intellect! He presents some compelling arguments for me to consider!” Since you show no respect, you do not receive much, Skippy.

          • ashleyhr

            Your childish blogs at Piltdown Superman etc have no scientific substance to them just propaganda and links to the writings of others. My BCSE comments and emails have plenty of substance to them. But you lie that they ‘lack logic’ etc. But you CANNOT show that this is the case (in fact you don’t even try). I have not seen anyone ‘laugh’ at my posts (apart from a few loudmouths like Calvin Smith and Tony Breeden and you). But thank you for acknowledging that ‘a few times’ I have had a ‘respectful tone’. This from someone who constantly calls everybody else who is not a YEC ‘tinhorns’ (even most other YECs are not as childish as you). It is difficult to always be ‘respectful’ when encountering wilful lying and false accusations against the scientific community and/or against those Christians who accept the scientific consensus (by people who routinely censor any response I might make before even reading it). By the way – you claim to block my emails but you seem to know quite a lot about them (or is it only the ones I also post at the BCSE community forum which is only a representative sample).

          • ashleyhr

            MORE propaganda, Bob? Well it’s much easier than engaging in meaningful discussion with opponents of YEC-ism or theistic evolutionists:
            I will be emailing about your latest libellous blog. Dare you read it?

          • ashleyhr

            All those theistic evolutionists listened to SCIENTISTS. They should have been listening to BOB!!!!

          • ashleyhr

            In my email I said that “the reason people like me and Tyler Francke repudiate a ‘young’ Earth is not because it is ‘biblical’ but because it is SHEER NONSENSE”. I should have added that it is also not because 6,000 years is not enough time for evolution – as Bob slyly accuses those who believe in the reliability of science of putting forward.

          • It would be helpful is some people were able to distinguish between “disagreement with the interpretations of evidence” with “I don’t like what you said and I’m threatened by better science, so I’ll call you a LIAR!”

          • I don’t agree with everything Ashley says. But I can tell you that when I hear someone say “there is abundant evidence now agreed upon by evolutionary scientists that the entire human race on the planet today originated from two people just a few thousand years ago,” that is not someone who has a “different interpretation of the scientific evidence.” That is someone who has a different interpretation of objective reality. If they are not a liar, then they are completely insane.

          • ashleyhr

            Amen. (Even though you failed to post any photograph of a crying baby to entertain us.)

          • Professor_Tertius

            By the way, I encourage anyone unfamiliar with Cowboy Bob’s beloved “Question Evolution Project” to read their on-line “Questions for Evolutionists” tract. It is incredible!

            Not only does it display all of the usual ignorance of what evolution is and the kinds of evidence which make it one of the best attested theories in all of science, the fact that no “creation scientists” bothered to at least clean up its biggest bloopers and illogical claims tells us that it is purely a means of soothing and affirming donors already on board. It’s also clear that they realize that no thinking, science-literate person will be swayed by its lame attempts at argument—so the tract doesn’t even try.

            The project also has webpages where they claim to demonstrate that “evolutionists have no answers to these questions.” The alleged “best answers the evolutionists could come up with” sound like they were screened from the lamest emails they’ve received. (However, some of those alleged “answers from evolutionists” sound more like something their own staff wrote. No evolutionary biologist or paleontologist would write such nonsense. It reminds one of Ray Comfort’s cherry-picked “man on the street” interviews allegedly showing that “evolutionists have no answers.”)

            I’ve seen Cowboy Bob and his buddies claim that “Evilutionists don’t want anyone to see this tract!” Yet, when the Question Evolution Project began, I learned about it from the many scientists and science-literate bloggers and forum members who excitedly brought it to my attention. Everybody said the same thing: “You gotta see the new Questions for Evolutionists nonsense. It’s hilarious!”

          • “I’m quite familiar with Cowboy Bob Sorensen’s rants on his various
            websites and forums.” And yet, you show amazing lack of knowledge about what I’m doing, which will be evidenced below. “I think he is very aware that he is lying about
            the science.” I think people are very aware that you are lying about being a Christian and “former creationist”.

            “By the way, I encourage anyone unfamiliar with Cowboy Bob’s beloved
            “Question Evolution Project” to read their on-line “Questions for
            Evolutionists” tract. It is incredible!”

            Thanks, yes it’s incredible. Except that I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CONTENT. It is the property of CMI. They used my text and music video on their site, but I did not write the tract.

            “The project also has webpages where they claim to demonstrate that “evolutionists have no answers to these questions.””

            Get the right “project”, Bubbles. CMI does have articles and videos showing where evolutionists have tried to respond, but they were ignorant pups like you spewing vapid talking points and not actually engaging with the material.

            Then you get into the appeal to motive fallacy in your efforts to demonize CMI (while blaming me). But evolutionists, atheists, and pretend Christian-but-also-Darwinoids really do fire off nonsense in the name of Darwin, fleas be upon him.

            Do your homework, stop lying, stop using logical fallacies, and maybe people will take you seriously, Mr. “I Hide Because I’m Lying About Being In Hiding Because Those Bad Old Creationists Will Kill Me”.

            Amazing. People listen to this guy, Haywire, Francke, uncritically because they’re united in hate.

          • ashleyhr

            “I think people are very aware that you are lying about being a Christian and “former creationist”.”

            You have NO evidence for your hate-motivated claim. Do you Bob? This ‘pretend’ Christian (who you have claimed is an ‘atheist’) certainly seems to have a good understanding of Bible exegesis as well as the arguments put forward by young earth creationists. Perhaps you should study his emails and his blog:

            I don’t know his identity but I believe he is in his eighties.

          • Professor_Tertius

            I’m quite familiar with Cowboy Bob Sorensen’s rants on his various websites and forums. I think he is very aware that he is lying about the science.

            Bob lacks understanding of even the most basic science of the relevant fields (and carefully avoids reading anything which might accidentally educate him) and that’s why he doesn’t allow comments on most of his pages—and on the few where he does, he immediately deletes any posts which flag his bloopers and general ignorance. After deleting them, he preserves his own side of the “debate” and brags about how thoroughly he “destroyed the godless evolutionist’s arguments”. Obviously, if he TRULY believed he had so thoroughly trounced his opponent, he would want to preserve both sides of the debate so that his readers could learn from the discourse. (He will claim that vulgar language made the deletions necessary—yet he knows that I don’t use such language and he could have used asterisks to omit such words if I actually had.) Like virtually every other “creation science” proponent on-line, fear dominates everything he does.

            The Rational Wiki article on Cowboy Bob Sorensen is worth a read. Its observations harmonize quite well with my own experiences with one of my favorite YEC idealogues. (When it comes to unintentional comedy, Cowboy Bob rarely disappoints. He’s famous for running away from debate challenges—and then claiming that he already “won”!)

            I too was cc’d by Ashley Haworth-Roberts on the exchanges. It’s always funny to watch the YEC ranters complain that their censorship of real science on their websites doesn’t entirely protect them from hearing specifics about their nonsense.

          • ashleyhr

            Right on.

          • ” I think he is very aware that he is lying about the science.” So, we have another one who is unable to distinguish between disagreement and dishonesty. Common among atheists, atheists pretending to be Christians, and theistic evolutionist heretics who enable atheists.

          • ashleyhr

            We can ALL distinguish that you are a stinking liar who also tells lies about science, Sorensen. My emails prove it. Which is why you refuse to address their contents.


            Liar says “I’m not lying”. VERY convincing. If I say that I SHOW it. If you say that you resort to the weapon of MORE lies, Ad hominems, distraction tactics or blatant censorship to manipulate or zap debates that you were losing.

          • “If they are not a liar, then they are completely insane.” Bifurcation fallacy based on an evolutionary worldview noted.

          • Um…no. “There is abundant evidence now agreed upon by evolutionary scientists that the entire human race on the planet today originated from two people just a few thousand years ago,” is a statement of objective fact. It is either true or it isn’t. And, since it isn’t, the only reason you would say it is would either be because you are a liar or your view of objective reality has been distorted due to insanity.

          • Question-begging epithet noted, further bifurcation noted.

          • ashleyhr

            Pseudo-intellectualism and pseudo-science (plus lies hatred evasions and hypocrisy). Anything else in your repertoire?

          • That’s just adorable. The faceless troll whose entire existence is a crime against logic and reason thinks he can lecture me about fallacies. Hey, let me save you some time on your response: “Ad hominem noted.”

            I don’t have time for this idiocy, so how about this, smart guy? Your next comment either contains a thorough and indisputable factual basis for Calvin’s claim, quoted again below, or that’s the last time you ever comment on my site.

            Here’s the claim: “There is abundant evidence now agreed upon by evolutionary scientists that the entire human race on the planet today originated from two people just a few thousand years ago.”

            I look forward to hearing all about this abundant evidence, and reading the many testimonies from evolutionary scientists who are in complete agreement with Calvin’s interpretation of it.

          • Piltdown Superman

            So, I have to be kept on topic, but have to tolerate defamation and outright lies from atheopaths and Darwinoids who are all over the place in their comments. Two standards, no waiting.

          • Just asking you to back up your claims and insults with anything remotely resembling fact. You can’t, obviously, so so long.

          • ashleyhr

            Sorry to hear that you have banned Sorensen if indeed that is the case (but he is about the most provocative arrogant dishonest unteachable professed Christian that I have ever spotted on the internet).

          • ashleyhr

            He could of course still eviscerate my emailed logic regarding Smith and Clarey from the safety of one of his own blogs …

          • Yup, he’s gone. If he were willing to back up his claims and engage in an actual discussion that’d be one thing, buf Iife’s too short to bother with mindless trolls who just want to troll.

          • ashleyhr

            Just read. My post just now was about his latest blog post. It also has a go at you by the way.


          • ashleyhr

            For those who don’t already know, this is Cowboy Bob Sorensen again using a different name. And what he is ‘tolerating’ (it’s a strange kind of tolerance he is displaying) is the truth about his behaviour.



            Go on – eviscerate my logic. Make my day.

            If you continue to REFUSE then you are the person who is refusing to be ‘on topic’.

            End of story.

          • Theistic evolutionists are useful idiots for misotheists and anti-creationists. Want to see more of what this tin-plated, overbearing dictator with delusions of godhood really says? The text in this short video is comprised almost entirely of his quotes:

          • ashleyhr

            In your dreams, Sorensen. You accused me (you did not name me but you quoted MY words) in a blog dated 6 November at Piltdown Superman/The Question Evolution Project of lying – because I had accused Timothy Clarey of the ICR of telling eight lies but I did not say what the lies actually were. In my subsequent email – copied to Tyler and the (and YOU) – I described exactly what the lies were. You refuse to DEAL with my email. Because you are a pathological liar and the email proved your statements about me to be false. Posting photos supposedly of Hitler and his generals is further confirmation that you are sick. As is making hateful comments under your Stormbringer’s Thunder blog of 5 Nov, then censoring them, then publishing them again and scraping the barrel with MORE lies about me, then censoring your comments a SECOND time (after I emailed photos of them to a large number of recipients because I rightly suspected you would try and hide the evidence of your lies that are motivated by hatred). You are causing immense damage to the reputation of biblical Christians by your online behaviour.

          • “You are causing immense damage to the reputation of biblical Christians by your online behaviour.” Back up your claim. So far, I’m dying of old age for you to back up claims.

          • ashleyhr

            So a (proven) reputation that some biblical Christians (you being the worst one I have encountered for a total inability EVER to be truthful or honest) are pathological liars is ‘not’ damaging?
            READ MY EMAILS. They prove that you LIED about me in your blog dated 6 November. READ MY EMAILS. DEAL WITH MY EMAILS. READ THEM. DEAL WITH THEM. (If you dare.)

          • ashleyhr

            I see you are trying to turn Tyler against me. Yet you continue to spew hatred against Tyler as well.

          • “I see you are trying to turn Tyler against me.”

            Just showing the world what a fascist you are, Sweetums. As for trying to turn him against you, no, he’s too much of a Darwin Drone to stop being your BFF.

          • ashleyhr

            Scraping the barrel is all you have got left, you hypocrite. I expect you would enjoy living in a ‘Christian’ version of North Korea where it’s off to the gulag with you if you dare to question the claims of Cowboy Bob.

          • ashleyhr


          • Oh, come now, Bob. Don’t be coy. You know your trollish charms are really quite appealing to me. The more I meet intelligent, reasonable, witty and magnanimous young earthers such as yourself, the more I’m tempted to join the movement.

          • “I see you are trying to turn Tyler against me.” Part 2.

            Years ago, you went on record as being opposed to bullying. Yet you spend a great deal of time bullying and harassing biblical creationists.

            You have been stalking me for *years*, defaming me in email spams, sites, forums in an effort to turn creationists against me. (Not working, by the way.) You’re turning this site into another of your personal spleen-venting places, pretending to have “truth” and “reason”, but unable to use either.

            Your hypocrisy is astounding.

          • ashleyhr

            I worked on anti-bullying at the UK Department for Education 12 years ago. I did not choose that job, but I do oppose bullying (I was bullied at school by the way).

            I challenged falsehoods on Sorensen’s web pages. I did not ‘bully’ because I SHOWED how he was wrong. Whereas he falsely libels me in places where I CANNOT reply and because my emails PROVE him wrong he REFUSES to deal with their content and instead spews venom. So WHO is the real bully? I have used reason. You lie that I have not or that you ‘eviscerated’ it. Yet you refuse even to read my emails let alone deal with their actual contents! The real hypocrite is YOU. This post ALONE confirms it. I am not a hypocrite. I don’t pretend to be logical – like you do – I SHOW it (and you run away like a coward – then return days later spewing yet more venom either here or in or under one of your hate blogs such as StormBringer’s Thunder or Piltdown Superman/The Question Evolution Project). Repent.

          • ashleyhr


          • Thanks. And folks like yourself are useful shills for the likes of CMI, AiG and ICR to make millions off their false teachings.

          • Tu quoque noted. Also, you have to prove that they “make millions”. Define “make”, is it “goes into someone’s bank account”, or is i that people donate to finance each ministry, like thousands of others. Hey, how about taking Clinton Richard Dawkins to task for charging people to join his clubs to attack “religion”, and he’s one of the richest men in Britain? (crickets)

          • I don’t have to “prove” anything. They’re nonprofits, so their tax returns are available to the public, by law. Look them up for yourself if you’re curious.

            As for Richard Dawkins, there is much we disagree on, but at least he doesn’t claim to speak for Christ and then do and say pretty much the opposite of what Jesus said and did.

          • ashleyhr

            Will Sorensen kindly tell us WHICH of my comments here he is alluding to. Meanwhile my emails of 6 November PROVED once again that Sorensen most certainly is a serial, unrepentant Liar. In that 5 Nov Stormbringer’s Thunder blog he falsely claimed to have eviscerated my “logic” (note Sorensen’s sarcasm) and also called me ‘depraved’ presumably because I exposed highly dishonest and highly selective comments about evolutionary scientists made by Calvin Smith on the CMI website (comments Smith refused to address in his recent wide-circulation emails preferring instead – like Sorensen – to verbally abuse). Incidentally I see that Sorensen’s stooge Gordons is badmouthing his head off about me under the 5 Nov blog even though he doubtless has not even seen my emails as I do not know his email address (and Sorensen has thanked him for his ‘support’). Meanwhile my emails (copied to Tyler and others) also addressed THIS blog of 6 Nov:

            In it you falsely claimed to have ‘refuted’ me with regards to comments I made by email in October over highly misleading ICR articles by Tim Clarey about Homo naledi. You did no such thing. Sorensen wrote: “When making such an accusation [of lying], evidence must be shown that there is an effort to deceive.” My emails of 6 Nov specifically identified the EIGHT ‘whoppers’ of Clarey and my comments therein highlighted how it was all deliberate – because YECs are in a state of virtual meltdown over Homo naledi and feel compelled to try and shore up their position with made-up ‘facts’ and conjectures (ones discounted by the scientists involved).

            Sorensen: READ my emails of 6 Nov and address their CONTENTS. Please. You wrote: “Again, what are these alleged lies, and where is the evidence? Making a simple-minded assertion is not evidence.” READ MY EMAILS. I PRESENTED THE EVIDENCE OF SYSTEMATIC LYING BY CLAREY (TWO BLOGGERS REACHED THE SAME GENERAL CONCLUSION AS ME). READ MY EMAILS. DEAL WITH MY EMAILS.

            If you cannot access my emails because you are blocking me, ask somebody else such as one of the other YECs copied in or Tyler to forward them to you. You have no excuse for refusing to read my emails. But I am not going to print them here for you, partly because they are lengthy and detailed (and this post is already lengthy).

            Sadly for young earth creationist apologists, it is impossible NOT to lie if you are determined to make ALL reality either ‘biblical’ or ‘not unbiblical’. As Clarey was attempting to do with Homo naledi – where he wrote on 22 October: “God clearly tells us in Genesis 1:26 that He made man in His image, giving mankind dominion over all other animals. He did not make creatures that were “almost human,” and no evidence—including that from Homo naledi—has so far refuted this.” But Homo naledi is neither ‘fully’ human nor ‘just’ an extinct ‘ape’ and Clarey was unable to support his conclusion that “the claimed new species appears to be a mosaic of different species” (one ‘nearly human’ – whatever that means – and another ‘extinct ape’) WITHOUT lying and falsely accusing.

            The moral of this story is that when I accuse Sorensen of being a liar I SHOW that this is the case. I also show that I am NOT a liar. Will he listen? Of course not. Because he IS a liar.

          • Professor_Tertius

            Really? Cowboy Bob refusing to engage those who expose the science ignorance and illogical rubbish of his rants?

            Sounds like business as usual.

          • I don’t have much time to engage with trolls and weak minds.

          • ashleyhr

            Unfortunately for you, hypocrite Sorensen, I DO.


          • ashleyhr

            ‘Tinhorn’ a term of abuse (which I looked up) which is regularly and casually employed by Bob. Not just against me but in his blogs as well – including against other Christians with relevant scientific credentials merely for posting reasoned arguments and for drawing attention to evidence that gravely undermines young earth creationism (even though as far as I know none of them have directly criticised Bob’s blogs). And Bob is a person who ORIGINALLY used the word ‘anthropomorphic’ in his third sentence here when telling readers what to think about global warming – until the error was pointed out by … somebody:

  • ashleyhr

    On the Ad hominem point, in his original article Calvin wrote “Ernst Haeckel, (in)famous for his fraudulent embryo drawings (often still used in modern textbooks even though evolutionists have admitted they are false) was nicknamed ‘Darwin’s Doberman’ because of his relentless promotion of evolution in Germany. Haeckel divided humans into twelve different species and in his racist book called The History of Creation he openly attacked the biblical model …”. But I guess that was no Ad hominem because you cannot libel the dead.

  • ashleyhr

    Smith has NEVER told me whether or not he even read my original email dated 3 September about his article ‘Creation: the better explanation’. It sounds as though he views such challenges as ‘spam’ from a ‘cyber troll’. But speaking for myself, although I dislike advertising spam, now and again I do take a look at it if the contents appear either relevant to myself or otherwise interesting.

  • Honestly, he probably blocked everyone on that list

    • Maybe (there were a lot of his buddies on the list too). I’m thinking he probably just muted the conversation.

      • Chris

        With all that talk about proper netiquette and all he responds to what he believed spam not once but thrice? Live in that bubble long enough and you really lose sight of what it’s like when you don’t have final say.

  • You guys can add me to your spam my list any day! I can fill the ad Hominid and unintelligible screaming void left by Mr. Calvin. I’m sure you guys miss it. 😀

  • Aceofspades25

    > “[T]here is abundant evidence now agreed upon by evolutiontists that the entire human race on the planet today originated from two people just a few thousand years ago

    He probably copy and pasted this lie directly from Mark Driscolls book (what christians should believe)

  • lzzrdgrrl

    This tendency towards shrill vituperation and outlandish characterisation suggests that truly…… perhaps, Christianity IS dead. The most desperate fighting and casualities occur when the war is actually decided. Something to ponder…….

  • ashleyhr

    Having looked again at my original comments and at Smith’s point (9), I have just made a further comment HERE:

    In a sense the two Smith comments I quoted were not outright lies so much as misleading and simplistic statements (when viewed in their full context). Also both do contain wording which I think could easily be misconstrued by fans of CMI – which Smith would probably be happy with. Although he gives more details of what has been discovered quite recently by mainstream science (genetics I think), he still only presents parts of the picture in his article. To claim that scientists have adopted ‘the biblical creationist position’ is definitely stretching it. Too much should not be read into the scientists’ use of the names ‘Adam’ and ‘Eve’.

  • Wow, this is just sick. A professing Christian is in bed with anti-creationists to ridicule Christians who actually believe the Bible, to share e-mail correspondence, to side with the anti-creationist…sick. AHR claims to remove people from his spam list when they request it, but that is false. He knows I do not want to be on it, and knows that he is blocked, but brags that he keeps me on that list anyway. Others have informed me of his antics, requesting to be removed and then receiving further ridicule instead of complying with their wishes.

    This instance of what you’re doing to Calvin Smith is actually refuting the proven liar AHR. Smith did not want to be on the list, he said so, and was attacked further. By an alleged Christian as well as a bitter apostate.

    • You have really interesting ways of defining “attacks.” Calvin uses the words “trashy,” “slimy,” “immature,” “childish,” “pathetic” and “truly disgusting” to describe Ashley, then calls him “a truly childish, pathetic, rude and immature internet spamming troll with no class, integrity, or manners,” and you characterize him as the helpless victim, while proceeding to call me “sick” and repeatedly questioning my faith.

      On the other hand, the sins of the “attackers” would seem to be, on Ashley’s part, calling Calvin a liar (on the basis of irrefutable proof that he did, in fact, lie), and on my part, describing his behavior as “a slight escalation” and implying that he looks like Macaulay Culkin. What a horrific hate crime. Quick, someone call the FBI.

      • I forgot that creationists are held to a higher “standard” than evolutionists, and are not allowed to express emotions. Silly of me. Remember, Smith did not want to be put on the spam list, asked to be removed, then received abuse after he made that request. Your real complaint would be against Haywire the Stalker, but you enable him through your support, since you’re both sharing an agenda.

        • Ashley said he had been dishonest and misleading in his supposed work of bringing people to Christ, and backed up what he said with evidence from Calvin’s article.

          Whether you agree with him or not, if Calvin can’t handle someone taking issue with his writing, he should probably find a less controversial way to serve the Lord, like knitting sweaters for poor children or, I don’t know, actually sharing the gospel with people.

          At any rate, anyone can see that Calvin’s responses are huge escalations from anything Ashley said.

        • ashleyhr

          “then received abuse after he made that request”. He did NOT, Liar Bob (not from me). He received a challenge. Which he ducked. Preferring a tirade of name-calling (and then blocking me to end the ‘discussion’). RE-READ this blog, Liar. It shows the email I sent in reply to him asking to be removed from my emails. You received a copy of it too.

        • Professor_Tertius

          “I forgot that creationists are held to a higher “standard” than evolutionists, and are not allowed to express emotions.”– Cowboy Bob

          You can see what I meant about Cowboy Bob being consistently hilarious. (Yes, Bob, we are familiar with your “higher standards” and the rarity with which you express your emotions.)

          Here’s an idea: How about occasionally dealing with the actual scientific evidence and the scientific method as well as an honest reading of the Hebrew and Greek scriptures? It would serve as a reminder of why the Christ-followers who care about the scripture evidence and the scientific evidence understand God’s creation in ways that you’ve deliberately chosen to ignore.

          Or you could continue to assume that Young Earth Creationists are the only ones who care about the Bible. (I was once a “creation science” promoter so I do understand how the game is so often played.)

  • brengun

    I’ve interacted with a few of the creationist organizations over the years, and I find they all have their own character. They are all very defensive and prone to overreacting, which is probably a normal upshot of disagreeing strongly and wrongly with lots of people, but unlike Calvin, some manage to keep this under control, probably since they know that some of their “personal” emails can be reposted in blogs like this one. From what I can tell, ICR is a venerable institution that is fairly careful in their interactions (but dead wrong on everything), AiG is usually conscientiously polite if only because Ham doesn’t respond to anything personally and because they keep their people under control (but they’re still dead wrong on everything), and CMI are raving lunatics who will bite your head off if you accidentally offer them a passing compliment while meekly abstaining from agreeing with their science (and they’re dead wrong on everything).

    Limited sample size, so I’m assuming that I’d manage to fit more of them into the raving lunatics category with a few more email exchanges. I’d definitely fit more into the dead wrong on everything category. CMI have anger management issues from what I can tell. What’s disturbing is that I read a few articles by some of them before interacting with them, and they came off as wrong, but sincerely nice, slightly reasonable (when not discussing reality) and well balanced. Some of these guys should be tattooed with the disclaimer; “not as advertized”, or “I’m a borderline sociopathic walking timebomb” or maybe with something less nuanced. Others are nice enough and sincere, but they obviously fail to rub off on their colleagues or maybe they just misplaced the leash…

    • Spot on. Since publishing this, I’ve heard from a couple people who have had the misfortune of interacting with another of CMI’s hired guns and poo flingers, Jonathan Sarfati, in private Facebook groups. Not a pleasant individual, apparently.

      • brengun

        That’s good to know. I was wondering if it was just me. I’ve long suspected that Sarfati was the root of it, and from what you say, this is looking like a good guess. I don’t mind civil creationists, and I am this close to seriously respecting (while being totally baffled by) creationists like Kurt Wise and Todd Wood, but this guy is just bad news all the way through. I’m hoping chess doesn’t make you evil. I’m staying off it just in case.

        • Second that about Wise and Wood. I feel the exact same way.

          • Professor_Tertius

            Me too. Both strike me as refreshingly honest. (Baffling but honest. I especially wonder how Dr. Wood is able to get excited by “baraminology” projects which never produce anything substantive, especially when the “baraminologists” at Answer in Genesis should have at their disposal the millions of dollars which “creation scientists” have long used as their excuse for never producing any scientific discoveries. “We don’t get the research grants the evolutionists get!” Perhaps Ken Ham doesn’t believe in baraminology enough to impact his financial decisions.)

      • I had my share of YEC flinging fecal matter at me over my dark allegorical rebuttals using their arguments against them — look up shark biology and when they came to the earth; as I pulled out Megalodon in the water with Noah’s Ark a few times first time was on Creation Science Evangelism and then the second time on a youtube comment. When I was a kid I read a lot about sharks and shark biology as my mother and step-father were scuba divers when they dated.

      • How pissed was he? I remember Paul Taylor calling me an angry young man when I had did a sir swearsalot response as he tried to refute my questions about the land bridge and the ice age. YECs often demand Sunday School Answers but they get the cluster f-bomb instead :laughing: I pissed off a YEC follower of the Hovinds when I said he pulled his knowledge of science out of his [bleep].

  • ashleyhr

    Sorensen/The Question Evolution Project has posted some c**p:
    My imminent wide-circulation email will address your cowardly attack. I am not posting it elsewhere. Will you have the courage to unblock my emails and READ it?

  • ashleyhr

    My latest – attempted – comment HERE (responding to the Sorensen ‘buttercup’ jibe) reads as follows:
    “Read my emails. They show that most of what you blogged on 5 Nov and 6 Nov was false. As is your latest evasive response above (which is similar to the latest rubbish you posted at ‘God of Evolution’ which I have just dismissed – in great detail). READ MY EMAILS. DEAL WITH MY EMAILS. If you refuse you will confirm to all the copy recipients that your position is indefensible. As for the BCSE I can and do post there whenever I like. At the moment I do not like. So you must access and read my emails. Don’t pretend that you are ‘unable’ to do so.”

    As I type this I’ve just seen that the comment HAS been published. I await the response.

  • ashleyhr

    Bob has now DELETED all the comments underneath his Stormbringer blog! Well the lunatic Fraud WAS losing the argument and he knew it. But will he EVER reply to the actual CONTENTS of my email which fully refuted his claim yesterday at Piltdown Superman that the accuser of Tim Clareyt ie me (he quoted MY words in his blog) is a ‘liar’? Will pigs ever fly?

    • Headless Unicorn Guy

      He actually called his blog “Stormbringer”?

      (Sez the guy who read a lot of Moorcock in his college days…)

  • ashleyhr

    Bob has now DELETED all the comments underneath his Stormbringer blog! Well the lunatic Fraud WAS losing the argument and he knew it. But will he EVER reply to the actual CONTENTS of my email which fully refuted his claim yesterday at Piltdown Superman that the accuser of Tim Clarey ie me (he quoted MY words in his blog) is a ‘liar’? Will pigs ever fly?

    (Re-posting as I could not see this comment just now.)

  • ashleyhr

    Bob ‘knows’ that I am a ‘liar’. My emails proved that I am not. Bob refuses to read them (or has read them but pretends that he has not). Evasive or what? I expect he will now run away from this thread as well.
    And then wait until things have gone quieter and then post another blog calling me a ‘liar’. Which I will of course DEAL with. (And so it goes on.)

  • ashleyhr

    PS Want some more lying and false libel by Liar Sorensen? Look no further:

  • ashleyhr

    If other YECs were honest they would disown the tactics of Bob when they are shown to them. But they don’t.
    It’s an evil Christian fundamentalist sect/cult where lying and false libelling is ROUTINE.

  • ashleyhr

    I have just sent the following wide circulation email:

    “Yet further proof of Bob’s pathological lying and fanaticism:
    “Haywire the stalker was defaming Calvin Smith of Creation Ministries International. A certain theistic evolution supported the misotheist’s rebellion against God by putting the libel on his own site. (So much for John 13:35, Galatians 6:10 and others.) It’s easy to destroy the “logic” of the stalker, and I did some basic picking in this trimmed screenshot (click for more bigness).”
    (post made 6 hours ago reacting to my demolition of false and/or misleading claims by a professing Christian)

    Meanwhile this thread records Bob’s evasiveness and utter deviousness during the past 24 hours (most of the new comments were posted LESS than 6 hours ago and I HAVE informed Bob of the new comments exposing his hypocrisy, endless lying and hatred – but he has gone uncharacteristically SILENT).

    Please will somebody forward this chain of emails to Because Bob does not want to read my emails (if he by chance has read them he is pretending that he has not) and he is proving himself a pathological liar by STILL accusing me of lacking logic WITHOUT reading it. “I refuse to read Ashley’s reply to my attacks but I have STILL destroyed his ‘logic’.”

    Yes, VERY ‘logical’ response by you Bob.

    I will judge your view of what is and is not scientific accordingly.”

  • Nathan Zamprogno

    It’s been a while since I’ve felt sufficiently moved to wade
    into a creationist poo-throwing competition, but the mention of the erstwhile
    CMI (now has roused me from my slumber.

    My perspective is as someone involved in Christian schooling
    for nearly 20 years. I am a high school teacher (history, english, science, technology), and a trenchant critic of Young Earth Creationism.

    I feel strongly the need to concur with commenter Brengun,
    who distinguishes among creationist organisations, the particular infamy CMI
    holds as easily the most crackpot and least honest outfit I’ve encountered, which really is saying something when you’re comparing yourself to fraudsters like tax-cheatin jailbird Kent Hovind, the younger mouth-breathing Eric
    Hovind, or flintstones-literalist Ken Ham.

    CMI first came to my attention many years ago when I was on
    the staff of my church, and they solicited a speaking engagement. I informed my
    minister that we didn’t want anything to do with them, and a CMI shill turned
    up at the door of the church practically apoplectic they’d been canned. The
    shill proceeded to insult me in front of my minister, who proceeded to turf him
    out on his ear. CMI then proceeded to publish a defamatory piece on their
    website where they called me a ‘Judas’ and a ‘wolf in sheep’s clothing’, which is
    still a badge of honour from my perspective.

    Later, I followed with interest the internecine feud between CMI and Ham’s AiG, which was replete with accusations of malfeasance on both
    sides, including theft, fraud and necrophilia. Yes, necrophilia. I am not
    making that up.

    Because there is no honour among thieves, Ken Ham stole CMI’s
    magazine subscriber list and substituted their own publication, striking a
    nearly fatal blow to CMI, stuck down in the backwaters of Australia (where,
    generally, Creationism is met with guffaws of laughter).

    And you guessed it: cue another public, profoundly embarrassing,
    histrionic and protracted hissy fit from CMI aimed not at those damned atheists, but rather at their fellow creationists. Such Christ-like fellows, these young-earthers. Turn the other cheek, and all.

    Lastly, and to round out this account, are the exploits of CMI ‘luminary’, Jonathan Sarfati, who’s self promotion reaches such lofty heights it would make a North Korean dictator blush. Sarfati fancies himself as something of a brain, and most CMI publications have filled column inches in recounting his ‘staggering genius’ in ‘silencing the critics of Biblical creation’. Unfortunately, the only problem with such hagiographic accounts are that Sarfati himself wrote them as the editor of the publications in which they appeared. Sarfati long ago had to abandon Australia when he realised that there wasn’t a living wage for him in CMI’s failing Australian operation, and now he works small and gullible churches in America, although there was some evidence a few years ago of AiG trying hard to kneecap his efforts.

    Having met both Sarfati and CMI’s now-retired founder Carl
    Wieland, I can attest that their dishonest contortions to twist absolutely any
    evidence to fit their scientifically faulty and deeply un-Christian worldview
    is almost without equal. CMI are the absolute masters of the ad-hominem attack.
    They specialise in the ‘No true Scotsman’ logical fallacy, claiming that any
    so-called Christian that does not believe in their particular version of Young
    Earth Creationism is, by definition, not really a Christian at all, QED!

    CMI are the petulant child at the feast of creationist infamy. They wear their inferiority complex on their sleeves because they don’t get the nice things, like million dollar museums or big toy arks or animatronic dinosaurs or well publicised debates to lose against Bill Nye.

    CMI like to think of themselves as serious or scholarly, but they are neither. Your young Calvin Smith seems absolutely the exemplar from CMI central casting.. a type I’ve encountered time after time. Either no serious qualification at all, or a qualification in a completely different field which is abused beyond all recognition (examples: a qualification in astronomy does nothing to qualify you to talk about biology, and a degree in solid-state physics does nothing to qualify you to talk about palaeontology or geology). I’ve never heard of him, and his behaviour makes it abundantly clear why. His inferiority complex must burn particularly fiercely as he is one of the few people listed at the CMI site without any tertiary qualification at all (it lists him as having an “Extensive background in pastoral youth teaching” and “leading on-campus study groups”, which we all know make one an expert in the varied discipline of evolutionary science).

    I oppose Calvin Smith and his know-nothing brethren because they do immeasurable harm to the Christian Gospel. The sooner they are out of business, the better.

    • Professor_Tertius

      Fascinating post, Mr. Zamprogno. I’m always interested in reading about the experiences of others who have dealt with these “creation science” operatives.

      I always get a chuckle out of the Jonathan Sarfati fans who gleefully cite Sarfati’s chess prowess—and how many chess boards he can play simultaneously supposedly establishes his superior genius. According to them, if someone is “really smart”—about what doesn’t matter to them— they must be authorities on science at least as important as…well…actual scientists who’ve specialized in the relevant academic field. Yet what disturbs me most about that is that it seems to carry weight among even many of the people who attended major universities but somehow never learned to appreciate how much more a PhD in a given field knows than the average person on the street, even the really smart random person on the street. That kinds of ignorance amazes me. Such people find it incredibly easy to casually dismiss knowledge of things like comparative anatomy and taxonomy. So when I explained to such people that a herbivore couldn’t so casually “convert” to a carnivore after Adam caused “the fall of all creation”, they tell me “You don’t know that. You don’t know that they would need different anatomy.” (Tim G. at is an example of such cluelessnes, relying regularly on the Argument from Personal Incredulity fallacy to dismiss absolutely anything he doesn’t understand and doesn’t care about.)

      You hit the nail squarely on the head when you wrote:

      “I oppose Calvin Smith and his know-nothing brethren because they do immeasurable harm to the Christian Gospel.”

      As I’ve commented in many venues, I’m hopeful that the Templeton project at Trinity International University will help address the hermeneutical obstacles to evangelical acceptance of important science and their Sunday School and Bible study curricula (a major educational objective of a project focused on the theological factors which so many Christian think requires them to deny the Theory of Evolution.) And it will be interesting to watch Ken Ham, CMI, and others complain about the “dastardly, compromising Christians” who dare spell out the reasons for their eventual demise as powerful huckster-entrepreneurs of the origins-ministry industry.

    • Fascinating (though disturbing) story, Nathan. Thanks for sharing, man.

  • ashleyhr

    Sorensen is a hate-filled s**t in bed with the devil: (see the republished comments that he previously deleted plus all the new utter hatred from Sorensen and his lying abusive sidekick).
    I have just sent the following wide-circulation email:
    “Look underneath this blog post again.
    (photos taken lest they have a fit of panic or remorse and hide it all once again)

    They have re-published the comments that were suddenly censored around four days ago – and Bob has posted some new venom against myself (which it has taken him FOUR days to concoct). Bob Sorensen and Remo Wilson are EVIL, LYING, COWARDS WHO HAVE NO INTEREST WHATSOEVER IN FACTS AND EVERY INTEREST IN FALSE LIBEL AND DISHONEST BIGOTRY AGAINST ANY PEOPLE WHO STAND UP TO THEIR ABUSE OF THE INTERNET IN THE NAME OF SO-CALLED ‘CREATION SCIENCE’.

    The detailed email I sent to all of you – including Sorensen – about the false claims by Timothy Clarey falsified Sorensen’s claims about me in his blog post. He refuses – just like Calvin Smith did – to address a SINGLE WORD of my email. Thus proving himself to be the evasive deliberate liar that he is (yet again). His latest tosh with his hate-filled sidekick under his blog is just further proof that Sorensen is a fraud – and is an evil ‘Christian’ who is in bed with equally depraved non-Christians who hate science and hate honesty.

    Don’t believe me? Take a look at the photos which prove it.

    A H-R
    PS This latest evil will of course be exposed on the God of Evolution website in a moment. And I will continue to expose this hypocritical fraud in future, whether or not his lying is about me.
    PPS Let us hope for Bob’s sake, Remo’s sake and Mister Gordons’ sake that hell is fictional.”

    • This is not about science or religion. It’s about you building up your ego and trying to rebuild your shattered credibility.

      • ashleyhr

        The person with no credibility is you, Sorensen, not me. You have claimed to have ‘eviscerated’ my logic (your twisted ego). Yet you refuse to deal in any way with my recent emails about your blogs of 5 and 6 November – which destroyed your false claims about me and about my words. You are a stinking lying hypocrite in Christian clothing. End of story.

  • ashleyhr

    Now lunatic Bob has republished the comments under this a THIRD time:

    I guess he must be disappointed with his performance under TYLER’S blog.

  • ashleyhr

    Evasive fraud and cowardly fanatic Bob Sorensen doing what he ALWAYS does. Failing, despite repeated requests for him to do so, to deal with the content of my recent emails HERE (where somebody might disagree with him perish the thought) or even deal with them at his main BLOG (where comments are not permitted). Much easier to libel me as a ‘tinhorn’ instead. I guess he has torn those verses about ‘liars’ in the book of Revelation out of HIS Bible.

  • ashleyhr

    Ranting hypocrite and fantasist (and coward) Bob Sorensen lying about me AGAIN (calling me ‘Abby Normal’ and thinking I won’t notice).

  • ashleyhr

    The pathological liar and stinking hypocrite is calling me a ‘demoniac’ – for repeatedly exposing him by email as an unrepentant pathological liar and false accuser. He is clearly mentally unbalanced and in utter denial.

  • ashleyhr

    Read my emails liar Sorensen. DEAL WITH MY EMAILS LIAR SORENSEN.

  • ashleyhr

    The fundies at Worldview Warriors (under the latest Risner blog) are suggesting that Tyler is not a real Christian.

    Well, I don’t think THIS hate-filled dishonest propagandist is a Christian either:

  • Does this guy think The Flintstones were a model for young earth theology? This type of Christianity is beyond cartoonish. the way they present their argument is like fecal matter rolling out of their mouth as they didn’t do the damn research as they take the Adam and Eve narrative too literally. The Gethesame Church in Pekin, Illinois, pass out Chick Tracts as they adopted the cartoon theology as part of their teachings.

  • Col 2:8 could be directed at this smooth talking bastard as I wonder where he got his philosophy education. gets their scientific knowledge by toilet fishing as they don’t practice real science or study it for that matter. They’re prone to Sunday School Answers like “Godidit” or “Aliensdidit.” When you have a thrash metal pioneer as a Messianic Jew and a watchmaker, Dan Spitz is vocal about autism as Dave Mustaine was studying science books when he was writing Dystopia. When I was refuting my first young earth creationist the fans of Cradle of Filth had a ring side seat as she was pulling out pages from Answers In Genesis. After laying into a few of them I found myself looking up Reasons to Believe and Biologos Foundation. I had used Messianic Jewish translations of the Bible to refute some of their claims; as I am referring to the Tree of Life translation of 2 John 2:21 when it comes to this character, ” I have not written you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth.”